CNN
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Accompanying his selection as Time’s Person of the Year, President-elect Donald Trump sat down with the magazine for a wide-ranging interview that published on Thursday.
The president-elect, fresh off his election victory and recognized by the magazine as its Person of the Year for the second time, touched upon a series of topics, including US policy toward Ukraine, his plans for mass deportations and the scope of potential pardons for those involved in the January 6, 2021, US Capitol riot. The interview was conducted on November 25.
Trump said he “vehemently” disagrees with allowing Ukraine to use US-provided weapons to strike inside Russia and that by doing so, the US is “escalating this war and making it worse.”
“I disagree very vehemently with sending missiles hundreds of miles into Russia. Why are we doing that?” Trump said. “We’re just escalating this war and making it worse. That should not have been allowed to be done. Now they’re doing not only missiles, but they’re doing other types of weapons. And I think that’s a very big mistake, very big mistake.”
President Joe Biden gave long-awaited authorization to Ukraine in November to use powerful US-provided long-range weapons, called Army Tactical Missile Systems, or ATACMS, inside Russia. The authorization was a key request from Ukraine for months.
Throughout his campaign, Trump repeatedly cast doubts on continuing US support to Ukraine and vowed to end the war once he was in office. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has said he wants to work “directly” with Trump and is open to his ideas on ending the war.
Trump declined to say in his interview with Time if he has spoken with Russian President Vladimir Putin since the election, but was pushed repeatedly on the question of whether he would “abandon” the Ukrainian president.
“I want to reach an agreement, and the only way you’re going to reach an agreement is not to abandon,” Trump said. He said the war is a “tragedy” with a “staggering” number of people killed on both sides of the conflict.
“(T)he number of dead soldiers that have been killed in the last month are numbers that are staggering, both Russians and Ukrainians, and the amounts are fairly equal … the numbers of dead young soldiers lying on fields all over the place are staggering,” he said.
Trump reiterated his plan to use the military to deport migrants who entered the US illegally and said he will push his use of US armed forces “up to the maximum level of what the law allows” for deportations.
Trump said he believes illegal immigration into the US can be categorized as “an invasion of our country” and said he would request the use of the National Guard and local law enforcement to supplement the military’s efforts in deporting migrants. US law says the military cannot be used to enforce domestic laws without an act of Congress.
“Well, it doesn’t, it doesn’t stop the military if it’s an invasion of our country, and I consider it an invasion of our country,” Trump said of the laws governing the use of military to enforce domestic laws.
“I’ll only do what the law allows, but I will go up to the maximum level of what the law allows. And I think in many cases, the sheriffs and law enforcement is going to need help. We’ll also get National Guard. We’ll get National Guard, and we’ll go as far as I’m allowed to go, according to the laws of our country,” he continued.
Trump also suggested he may build new detention facilities to house migrants even as he negotiates with other nations to receive deported migrants, and again threatened allies with tariffs if they do not agree to receive people deported from the US. When asked about the possibility of new migrant detention camps being built in his administration, Trump said, “There might be.”
“Whatever it takes to get them out. I don’t care. Honestly, whatever it takes to get them out. Again, I’ll do it absolutely within the confines of the law, but if it needs new camps, but I hope we’re not going to need too many because I want to get them out, and I don’t want them sitting in camp for the next 20 years,” he said.
“I want them out, and the countries have got to take them back, and if they don’t take them back, we won’t do business with those countries, and we will tariff those countries very substantially. When they send products in, they will have substantial tariffs, and it’s going to make it very hard for them to do business with us,” he continued.
Trump reiterated his promise not to separate families with mixed immigration status, saying he “would much rather deport them together.” He said in an interview with NBC News’s “Meet the Press” that aired on Sunday that he would want to allow the option for families with mixed immigration status to leave the country as a family if one member of the family is deported.
Trump suggested he will focus on those who were convicted of nonviolent crimes — who he said have been “greatly punished” — when issuing pardons for those convicted in connection with the January 6, 2021, attack on the US Capitol.
Trump told Time he plans to look at “each individual case” and will begin reviewing possible pardons “in the first hour that I get into office.” He said he’ll be looking to pardon people whose cases “really were out of control.”
“I’m going to do case-by-case, and if they were non-violent, I think they’ve been greatly punished,” he said. “I’m going to look if there’s some that really were out of control.”
Trump said “a vast majority” of those who were convicted and given prison sentences should not be in jail. Nearly 1,200 people either have pleaded guilty or were found guilty at trial for crimes connected to the January 6 attack, according to the Justice Department. More than 645 defendants were ordered to serve some jail time.
In his “Meet the Press” interview, Trump reiterated his commitment to pardoning those involved in the January 6 attack but did not rule out issuing pardons for people who were charged with assaulting police officers.
“These people have been there, how long is it? Three or four years? You know, by the way, they’ve been in there for years, and they’re in a filthy, disgusting place that shouldn’t even be allowed to be open,” he told NBC News.
Will study vaccines and autism diagnoses, despite no evidence supporting a connection
Trump said his administration will study the safety of childhood vaccines and rising levels of autism diagnoses, and suggested he may eliminate some vaccines if he views them as “dangerous.”
Trump told Time magazine he’s going to direct Robert F. Kennedy Jr., a prominent vaccine skeptic and his pick to lead the Department of Health and Human Services, to study the rising rates of autism diagnoses. He said he would consider getting rid of some vaccines for children, falsely suggesting autism may be caused by vaccines.
“We’re going to have a big discussion. The autism rate is at a level that nobody ever believed possible. If you look at things that are happening, there’s something causing it,” Trump said.
Scientists have repeatedly debunked the theory that vaccines cause autism. But despite that evidence, many anti-vaccine advocates, including Kennedy, have called for greater research into the subject.
When asked if he believes autism is caused by vaccines, Trump said he’s “going to be listening to” Kennedy, who he said he’s instructed to study any links between vaccines and autism, and left the door open to eliminating some vaccinations from the childhood vaccine schedule.
“It could, if I think it’s dangerous, if I think they are not beneficial, but I don’t think it’s going to be very controversial in the end,” Trump said of the possibility of getting rid of some vaccinations.
“We will know for sure what’s good and not good,” he added.
Since Kennedy suspended his presidential campaign and endorsed Trump in August, Trump has regularly expressed skepticism about the safety and efficacy of vaccines in his public remarks. During his interview with NBC News, Trump again falsely suggested vaccines may cause autism and floated the possibility of eliminating some vaccines while praising others as “incredible.”
Trump said there would be “very serious testing” and that, at its conclusion, “we will know for sure what’s good and what’s not good,” but didn’t go into detail about what the research would look like or what it’s looking for. It’s not clear whether it would shed light on vaccine safety or the cause of autism.
The myth linking vaccines and autism grew out of a 1998 study by Andrew Wakefield that was published in the medical journal The Lancet and later retracted. Wakefield had been compensated by a law firm intending to sue manufacturers of the MMR vaccine, and in 2010, he lost his medical license. In 2011, The Lancet retracted the study after an investigation found that Wakefield altered or misrepresented information on the 12 children who were the basis for the conclusion of his study. Several subsequent studies trying to reproduce the results have found no link between vaccines and autism.
Many studies have shown that vaccines aren’t linked to autism, including the shot that protects against measles, mumps and rubella, the preservative thimerosal and the pace at which children receive vaccines.
Autism diagnoses have been increasing — up from 1 in 150 children in 2000 to about 1 in 36 children in 2020. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says that’s largely because of more equitable identification that’s now reaching groups that didn’t have access to care before.
Autism and vaccine researchers have argued that continued focus on vaccines saps resources away from research that could improve autism identification and treatment and has led to declines in vaccination, leading to outbreaks of preventable diseases such as measles and whooping cough.
When asked if he supports a two-state solution between the Israelis and the Palestinians, Trump said he supports “whatever solution we can do to get peace,” while noting there are “other alternatives” without offering specifics.
“I support whatever solution we can do to get peace. There are other ideas other than two state, but I support whatever, whatever is necessary to get not just peace, a lasting peace. It can’t go on where every five years you end up in tragedy. There are other alternatives,” he said.
Trump’s backing away from a two-state solution is a departure from the plan he proposed during his first administration, which he called “a realistic two-state solution” but that was immediately rejected by Palestinians.
Trump did not rule out allowing Israel to annex the West Bank, pointing to the aftermath of the October 7, 2023, Hamas attack on Israel as an inflection point in his view on relations in the region. When asked if he would prevent Israel from annexing the West Bank, Trump said, “We’ll see what happens.”
“I want a long-lasting peace, a peace where we don’t have an October 7 in another three years. And there are numerous ways you can do it. You can do it two-state, but there are numerous ways it can be done,” he said.
Trump shed some light on his plans for the Department of Education, which he has repeatedly said he would get rid of.
Abolishing the department or merging it with another – like he proposed during his first term – would require an act of Congress.
When asked by Time magazine what he means, Trump called for a “virtual closure of Department of Education in Washington.”
“You’re going to need some people just to make sure they’re teaching English in the schools. Okay, you know, English and mathematics, let’s say. But we want to move education back to the states,” Trump said.
Almost every public K-12 school district in the nation currently receives federal funds distributed by the Department of Education. The amount varies by district, largely depending on the number of students from low-income families and the number with disabilities.
States and local school boards already have authority that can’t be superseded by the federal government, but those federal funds come with strings attached.
One possible way to address the bureaucratic red tape, and give more power to the states, would be to deliver federal funds through what is called a “block grant,” which comes with fewer restrictions.
The Department of Education has a number of other responsibilities, too. It administers the federal student loan and financial aid programs and has an Office of Civil Rights that is charged with investigating alleged discrimination complaints at colleges and K-12 schools.
This story has been updated with additional information.
